Oppo hivemind help needed

"MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario) 01/21/2019 at 11:26 • Filed to: wrenching, Oppo Questions

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Our 2009 Matrix has a problem that I can’t quite figure out.

Seemingly at random it will develop a vibration. The vibration only exists while on the throttle, as soon as you let go of the throttle it disappears.

Because of this I am assuming it is the driveshafts/CV joints. The wheel bearings seem fine since there’s no play in the wheels and no weird noises.

What I can’t figure out is how to confirm that it is the driveshafts/CV joints and how to diagnose which driveshaft is the issue. There are no noises like clicking while turning that would normally give away a bad CV joint. And the randomness of it is weird. After the first time it happened I took it to work the next day to get the wheels rotated and balanced just to rule those out and it didn’t happen at all that day even at freeway speeds. So far it only ever develops at freeway speeds (70mph+) but once it does develop will show up even at speeds down to 40mph. It then seems to “reset” after it sits for the night and won’t develop again until at freeway speeds (granted my data sample is small).

EDIT: Also took a look at the motor mounts and they appear to be okay. Not sure what one does to check if they are good besides a visual inspection.

What does Oppo think?

Suburban for your time

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 01/21/2019 at 11:45

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Motor mounts?

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 01/21/2019 at 11:46

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Should have added that those look okay...but how does one tell if a mount is bad?

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 01/21/2019 at 11:53

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I would look for cracks (which you already did) , beyond that I’m not savvy enough to know what else to do. Have someone start the car with the hood open: does the engine heave/move visibly on a cold start?

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 01/21/2019 at 12:06

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Judging by the title and thumbnail, the problem is your Matrix is having an identity crisis. It’s really trying its best to be that nicely patina’ d suburban you wish it was. Just let it be who it wants to be, and it'll be under so much less stress, and it's better quality of life will lead to much better performance. 

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 01/21/2019 at 12:07

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CVs would be on my list.

I’ve had quite a few go bad and do exactly what you’re describing. As far as checking, pulling each one out and checking it is your best bet. Usually what you “feel” gets transferred across, so it ends up being hard to diagnose. Check for binding or hard movement in either, also check for excessive play.

If it’s not a CV axle, it may be something internal on your trans, like a diff going to hell. That gives the same symptoms, until it finally ends itself in a loud bang, followed by parts/fluid everywhere.

Don’t ask me how I know.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 01/21/2019 at 12:15

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The way to verify if a motor or transmission mount is good is you have to apply some load while watching how much the engine moves. Here is a good explanation:

And if you have a CV joint issue, that should manifest itself in a clicking sound when you have the steering turned fully to the left or right and accelerating... particularly when cold and it hasn’t had a chance to warm up.

And don’t discount the possibility of it being the tires. I’ve had tires with broken belts that would feel smooth until the tire warmed up and then start causing a vibration. And when I removed the tire to clean the inside of the wheel of dirt (thinking maybe some dirt got lodged inside the wheel), I found this:

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/we-have-a-problem-1827705157

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee 01/21/2019 at 12:16

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But really, when checking cv shafts, you’re looking at looseness in the joints. They should have some axial play, sliding in/out, but no radial play. There might be some wiggle where they plug into the transaxle, but if you can move it at the joint in any other than sliding along the direction of the shaft, it’s no good.

When was the last time it had an alignment and are the tires wearing evenly? Any play in any of the steering components?

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 01/21/2019 at 12:18

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Would a tire shop notice that while balancing? I did just get them rotated and balanced.

My dad is going to come over today after work so I’ll have a hand to check the motor mounts.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 01/21/2019 at 12:19

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I sure hope it’s not the trans...I’ve already had to replace one of those this year.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 01/21/2019 at 12:23

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I’d bet it’s CVs, I doubt the Matrix gets driven hard enough to tear up a trans.

Then again our 2012 Corolla was on it’s 3rd when we sold it at 85k miles....

Wishing it’s just CVs for your sake.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 01/21/2019 at 12:35

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When I’ve had similar issues as you describe in the past it was a tire delaminating. A CV axle would make noise at low speed too. I wouldn’t rule out CV axles but it doesn’t seem symptomatic of a bad axle.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 01/21/2019 at 12:39

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“Would a tire shop notice that while balancing? I did just get them rotated and balanced.”

In theory, you would think they would. In reality, it wouldn’t surprise me if they didn’t. I’ve seen too many cases where shops don’t torque wheel lug nuts properly. And if they can’t even something basic like that right, it’s not much of a stretch to see how they would overlook tires with broken belts or out of round for some other reason.

And the way I found my issue was rolling it on my driveway slowly and looking for any issues.

And when you do that, you might as well clean the inside of the wheel.  A bit of dirt can throw off the balance at certain speeds.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee 01/21/2019 at 12:53

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Last alignment was probably 50k miles ago. I just had the wheels rotated and rebalanced and they are w ea ring evenly. No play in the steering that I can tell.

E92M3 > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 01/21/2019 at 13:54

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Any noise when this happens? Can you feel it thru the steering wheel? Or just thru the seat?

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > E92M3 01/21/2019 at 14:06

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No noise and yes you can feel it through the steering wheel, but not that the steering wheel is moving side to side.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 01/21/2019 at 14:21

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50k miles is a ton of potential potholes, but that’s not likely the problem if the tires are wearing evenly. As far as steering goes, I meant in the components themselves, which means crawling under and pulling on stuff.

Shocks/struts in good shape? No ice or snow buildup  on wheels? Sway bars/end links? I'm running out of ideas. 

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee 01/21/2019 at 14:31

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Yea, I have it off the ground right now and nothing seems to have any slop in the steering. Shocks/struts are original (160k miles) but don’t seem to be bad yet. The consensus so far is to look at CV joints first.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 01/21/2019 at 16:18

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Auto or manual? Light throttle or heavy? Hot or cold? Elaborate as much as possible on any of these you can.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 01/21/2019 at 16:24

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Auto, any throttle input , cold weather, hot or cold engine (has happened within minutes after start up or longer after up to temp)

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 01/21/2019 at 22:19

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Doesn’t some like a torque converter issue or a misfire. Doesn’t mean it isn’t. But I’d definitely start with checking mounts and axle s like others have suggested.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 01/22/2019 at 22:56

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Any chance a wheel could be bent?

carrier bearing?

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 01/23/2019 at 11:59

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The carrier bearing is also on the list of suspects. First plan is to check CV joints and go from there.

Shouldn’t be a bent wheel since I had the wheels balanced after the issue started and that didn’t fix it.